In episode two of our 'Future of Architecture' series, Part3's CEO, Jack Sadler, spoke with Ryan Crowle, Director of Operations at IDea, about the world of architecture and AI. In this forward-thinking interview, they discuss the challenges and opportunities in the industry, comparing past technologies with today’s latest innovations.

Ryan shares his thoughts on how new technology will impact the architecture industry as both continue to grow. He also talked about IDea's experience with Part3, highlighting how our tools have made their work easier and more efficient by utilizing AI to replace mundane tasks, enhancing communication, and more.

We hope you enjoy this insightful conversation about the evolving landscape of architecture and tech in architecture.

Questions &  Annotations

• 00:03 - Intro

• 01:35 - How long have you been in architecture?

• 01:58 - Will there be more multi-disciplinary teams in-house?

• 03:00 - What tech changes have you seen in the industry? 

• 06:56 - Do most architects look for tools that fit the way they currently work?

• 08:23 - Where is the industry headed and with what technology?

• 11:56 - What areas will AI have more of an impact?

• 14:51 - So AI has more potential in the admin side of things vs. creative?

• 17:28 - Does having a multi-disciplinary company make tech adoption more complex?

• 19:42 - Can AI simplify service expansion and diversification capabilities?

• 23:10- How will AI tools change the relationship between firms and clients?

• 26:15 - What does the future of tech & AI look like at your firm?

• 27:20 - What does the future of architecture look like?

  
  

👉 If you'd like to learn how Part3 can help your firm streamline processes and enhance productivity like it did for Ryan at IDea, book a demo today!

Transcript

Jack: So, I'm Jack Sadler. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Part3, which is a platform aiming to give architects and engineers control over their construction administration phase. I'm here with Ryan Crowle, partner at IDea. Ryan, Nice to have you.

Ryan: Great to be here. 

Jack: Ryan, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Ryan: Sure. My name is Ryan Crowle. I'm the Director of Operations at IDea, an architecture and engineering firm practicing in the ICI sector mostly. We've got offices in Ottawa that service our Eastern and Southern Ontario markets, and also one in Sault Ste. Marie which services Northern Ontario and our Western markets mostly. A bit about me: I'm the Director of Operations here, so I work with both of our branches, mainly in business operations, finance, HR, IT, and, when I'm really lucky, with our clients, moving projects forward and doing the fun part of the business. I have an education in business and I also came from the trades. I joined the industry in 2009 and found that I had a unique place in this industry and I love it! Every day is different, and it's just great to see projects come out of the ground from nothing and all of our clients' goals being realized.

Jack: You're a rare breed—someone with a business degree who found themselves leading an architecture firm as well. That's pretty rare and pretty interesting.

Ryan: For sure, it is.

Jack: How long have you been in the architecture industry?

Ryan: Officially in this capacity since 2009, but before that, I was in the trades since, geez, probably the early 2000s. So, you know, in the industry for quite some time.

Jack: So in that space as well, one of the trends you mentioned or alluded to was your own company's move into multidisciplinary work, like bringing engineering in-house and offering more skill sets in-house. Is that a trend that you've started to see more or less of, or would you expect to see more or less of?

Ryan: Not a lot, to be honest. There are many firms out there that offer different services, generally through the purchase of other companies. You know, a lot of times those people don't sit beside each other or even know each other. I think we are unique in that those folks are sitting beside each other day in and day out, working together, and getting to know our workflows and how each other works. There are many good integrated design firms out there, not that there aren't any besides us, but it's definitely a rare thing in the industry, for sure.

Jack: When you come back to that as well, I wonder how technology might or might not play a role in whether we see a bit more of that. Since you've been in the industry for a while, since 2009, in this type of capacity, what sort of changes have you seen over time? Any sort of technological changes? That's our focus, right, to look at the tech side. Have you seen any evolution that's kind of changed the way you do things in that time period?

Ryan: Right, so this is like the 10-year look ahead, or what's happened in the last 10-15 years. 

Jack: We’ll look back to look ahead.

Ryan:Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I think there are some standouts for sure. Our firm has been around for well over a hundred years, and I think likely some of the major things that were important to clients then are the same now, and those aren't going to change. Customer service will remain number one forever, I think, followed by practical and thoughtful design solutions. How we get there, I think, is constantly changing, and we've seen that over the last 15-20 years, although it's pretty slow. For example, our Eastern office was one of the first firms in the area to adopt Revit and BIM, followed by our Northern office, which was mainly CAD until very recently, the last five years kind of thing. AutoCAD, of course, was the first one in the early 90s, with generation one coming out. Everyone was still manual drafting at the time. It took a long time for it to become the mainstay in the industry, and the same thing's happened with Revit. You still will find lots of firms that we partner with all the time that are amazing at what they do, they're still CAD offices, because there's so much time and unlearning of the product involved when it comes to learning a new platform. Some of the senior staff just aren't up for those challenges, so you really got to leverage what they're good at and figure out a way to get to the end. We demo lots of new software. We're very careful with what we put on staff. We've experienced software overload in the past for sure, where you're trying to put a solution in place to help people get their job done and improve the quality or improve the amount of time that they have to work on things. But oftentimes, you find that you're oversold on a product that is out in the industry and it really doesn't do what they say it's going to do. Then you're down the road and you've invested six months in time learning it and instructing it to staff, and sometimes it's hard to do a full stop and backtrack on what you're using. You've spent all that money and time getting to learn it, right? So, I would say for every five pieces of software that come out, or maybe ten is a better number, one is useful. That being said, that one that is useful generally changes our workflow and really improves the quality or amount of time that it takes to put something out. It's slow for sure.

Jack: Definitely! That's been my experience working with you as well. In the time that we've worked together, I've seen you adopt or try other new software. You've been an early adopter of Part3, you've been an early adopter of other software like BIM Track, and you've explored others in the time we've known each other. I know you've always been on the cutting edge, willing to try new things, willing to find a way of getting that sort of head start or something that could be useful and bringing it in. But it is risky, right? It's tough to know which ones are going to fit. You did mention one cool thing, which was the right one could change your workflow. Do you think that's quite typical? Do you think most architects quite often are sort of looking for the tool that fits the way they're doing things, whereas you position that quite differently?

Ryan: For sure. It totally depends on the person and who's at the helm of the ship. We partner all the time. I would say every project that we work on has a design partner, whether we're hiring external MNE, whether we're working with external structural and civil. Sometimes we'll partner with another architecture firm if we don't have exactly the right skill set that the client's looking for, if it's a special project type that we don't have a lot of experience in. So sometimes it's a bit of an issue trying to get aligned with them on how we're going to work together. Like I said, a lot of the firms are AutoCAD only. A lot of them are charging additional fees to use Revit, to go into a generative design and work with us the way that we like to work. So, I would say that everybody in the industry is different for sure, and it's just figuring out the best workflow for the team.

Jack: When you look ahead now and you maybe look at the next few years, five years, ten years is sometimes a bit too far to look, and predictions are a fool's game, which is why I like asking people to make them. But where do you think the industry is headed, and what technologies do you see kind of shaping that future?

Ryan: Right, so ten years out, I don't know. We thought we'd have flying cars by now. I'd like to think the tools we have at our disposal, like Part3, will give us some time back throughout some of the project phases so we can focus on the elements that really matter most to the project. AI's been the big buzzword out there for the last, let's call it five years. I went to a conference five years ago and it was all spun towards AI and what that was going to mean for the architecture industry. The talk of the town in 2019 was that architects should start looking for a new job because in five years all the firms will be irrelevant, right? Coming at it a half-decade later, we've hardly received anything that's worth looking at from an AI software point of view. We've demoed quite a few out there—programs that will kind of help you work on your massing and best coordinate the site and look at what the best layout is for multi-unit residential buildings and that kind of thing. But even the best ones that are out there require a massive amount of human intervention. They don't consider the soft things that are important to clients. They don't consider code most of the time. They don't consider, you know, what zoning restrictions we have to look at on sites and that kind of thing. So as much as it might help, you know, 2-3% of what we do, I don't see in the near future AI becoming an incredible part of our business, you know, like 10-15-20% of our design process. It's just not there yet unless there's going to be a major breakthrough in the next few years.

Jack: Yeah, which I think is definitely the sentiment we're seeing, right? We're seeing the first products and features and tools are sort of hitting the market. A lot of them are a little bit underwhelming. Some of them are doing one slice of a problem really well, but it's still just a time saver. It's not moved into the core. It's not moved into the center of what you do.

Ryan: For sure, for sure. So, you know, where we've really focused on software is that it's going to help with the mundane tasks. You know, a couple of them, and I'm sure every firm in history these days, deals with email management. When I started in this industry, maybe you had 15-20 emails a day kind of thing, and now most people are up to 200 a day or more, which is insane when you think about the amount of time that it takes to digest every one of them and either action them or file them away. So it's finding software to deal with that kind of stuff. Contract administration is another great example, and I can't say enough about Part3 and what it's done for our company. Those type of things are where I see software really adding value to our businesses. Design is so subjective, I just can't see it ever being done by a machine.

Jack: Right, so are there any areas that you think AI has more of a chance to have an impact?

Ryan: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think they're going in the right direction. Autodesk is our go-to software for everything, starting from massing in the very early concept and design phase of the project. They've been great about trying to predict where the future is going and basically they'll go out and buy a company. Forma is a great example of that where they go out and buy a company that's doing really good things and try to add to it. So, you know, a little bit of assistance with doing the site planning, getting through massing, making sure it works with the zoning, being able to conceptualize that for the client—that's where the software adds value. We saw Revit add tons of value for us in the early stages because, in the early days, like in the 2D world with AutoCAD with manual drafting, it's very difficult for a client that's not in the industry and not used to looking at drawings all day to picture what their building is going to look like, to understand how the interior of the building will feel, and what the volume of space will look like. Revit really changed that with a number of the plugins that are available now and being able to render in real-time and show the client what the buildings look like.

Jack: So that's definitely one that I've always struggled with. As anyone on the outside who's not an architect, isn't in the industry, visualizing what you mean on a plan is impossible. So to see some pretty cool AR and VR solutions helping with that too.

Ryan: For sure. Yeah, I mean, we bought our VR setup in, I think it was probably 2018, and we don't do it for every project because it's pretty labor-intensive. But, you know, especially large projects where you've got a few very important spaces you want to make sure that the client's on board with and understand how exactly they're going to work—you know, put the VR goggles on, do a walk-through—the result is amazing. We've had clients cry because they couldn't picture their building and here they are standing in it. It's amazing. That technology's been phenomenal.

Jack: That's awesome. Yeah, and the best possible use case for getting the client bought in, getting them to critique and look around and almost feel like they can live within it. That's awesome.

Ryan: For sure.

Jack: So your views on AI are interesting to me too, right? You're basically saying that the creative side of things, it's not quite there. The back office side of things, there's potential but it's not quite there yet. But you can kind of understand how it might be in more administrative or back office functions, potentially valuable, although not seen it.

Ryan: For sure, for sure. And I mean, there's potential there. Like, you've all seen the examples of someone telling AI to draw them some outrageous scene and what it comes back with is incredible. So why that hasn't translated into some level of architecture and design yet, I'm not really sure. Or maybe it has and I just haven't found it. Like, I'm looking all the time for this kind of stuff, and it's just not quite there yet. But hopefully it gets there eventually. There are so many codes and standards, hundreds of codes and standards that we need to be aware of and understand. So, you know, I'm not sure if it'll ever get to the point where it can dissect all of those and then the design solution will actually fit the bill. But, you know, you get something like, for example, your new AI submittal tool—amazing piece of software. That's a great example of a paperwork exercise, a mundane task that you have to dedicate professional staff to reviewing. You know, they still need to review it, they still need to check it, but they go through Part3 and it's already identified, "Oh, look out for these things. They're missing. You've asked for them in the spec. They're not in the submittal." You know, that maybe cuts out an hour of time on a medium-sized submittal that they can get back either making sure that everything else is there and that it meets the requirements of the project, or just doing something else for the client.

Jack: Yeah, that's awesome. 

Ryan: That's the big win for me, I think. 

Jack: Wait until we figure out how to read door hardware submittals for you. Watch that hour skyrocket.

Ryan: Yeah, if we could have an AI tool that created hardware schedules for us, that would be the next one we would go for.

Jack: Right? I’m making a note. So, okay, knowing where you think AI is headed, I want to come back to one of the points we talked about at the beginning, which was the fact that you're a multidisciplinary firm. You've got a complicated model where you've got in-house engineering and architecture. Do you think that makes it more complicated for you to adopt certain technology like AI, or do you think the potential value is even more prominent because of the complicated nature of your business?

Ryan: Well, it depends what we're asking the software to do, I suppose. The things that we've seen AI doing or trying to do so far in the design world are things like building layouts, big picture stuff, site massing, building placement based on sun and shading and that kind of thing. The detailed work on the engineering side is much more complicated than that. Every discipline is reacting to something else. Electrical is roughed out based on all of the requirements of what the mechanical department needs to power all of their equipment, right? So, can you ask a computer to go and sort out every piece of equipment that's in the mechanical model and exactly what it requires in terms of power, conduct a load calculation in accordance with all the codes and standards? Yes, in theory, you should be able to because all of that information is scheduled. It would be very complicated and would still require lots of human review, I'm sure. But the information's there. There's no reason it can't do it. It's just I don't think anyone's asking it to do it yet.

Jack: Right, so do you think—one of the reasons I'm interested in this topic as well is because there is a theory out there that AI could make it easier for firms to try and offer new departments or new offerings, new services, right? Like an architecture firm now that wants to spin up a structural engineering practice, it's very difficult to do. You went through it, your company went through it. You've got to hire, you know, a bunch of professional engineers, bring them in, add them, integrate the process, and figure out how to do a whole bunch of back office stuff and make it happen. In the future, there's a theory that maybe you just hire one structural engineer, and then the same back office team with AI tooling starts to take on that new function and starts to integrate into a firm. Where do you sit on the scale of believer or skeptic? Do you think that's possible or do you think that's oversimplifying it?

Ryan: Yeah, I'd be very skeptical of that right now based on what we see. We're AME in-house, and the reason that we have those three is because they're all complementary to each other and we need all three of them every time. Whether we're doing a new construction building or a renovation or a fit-up, you need those three minimum.

Structural engineering, you know, we've thought many times over the years about whether it made sense for us to bring structural in-house too. Structural is very different, very building-specific, very industry-specific, and we have a great group of structural engineers that we work with, and we handpick that team depending on the project that we're working on and depending on their experience.

So, the same thing would come down to AI. Lots of partner firms, lots of folks that we've worked with in the industry have tried doing, you know, let's call it half of this by using labor pools. Lots of folks are using offshore labor pools these days, which is kind of halfway between AI and using your own team, right? Those models are, most of the time, pretty unsuccessful in terms of productivity.

If you're using someone outside the country that doesn't understand the federal codes and standards, and then you're getting into provincial codes and standards as well, which are most of the time very specific to the area, you're spending half of your time trying to convey that information to someone who doesn't understand it, have them redraw it. The savings in labor is attractive, but the amount of time that you spend trying to get there is counterproductive.

Then there's security requirements, of course. Just taking that example and moving it all the way forward to AI, you don't even have that human interaction anymore where you can kind of build a rapport with them and explain to them how projects here, or in Canada or in Ontario, work. Now you're trying to do that with a machine. I am skeptical about it. It would be a welcome addition to the industry, especially given the fact that the labor pool is quite small in the consulting industry, and it takes such a long time to train people and get them up to speed on the kind of projects that your firm works on and what your clients need.

It would be great if you could do that one time with AI and you're done, and then the entire team could leverage those skills that you developed. So, I don't know. I'm skeptical for sure, but I just don't see it yet.

Jack: I think I agree. I like trying to think about ways we can push this and foresee what AI is doing, but I think there's a difference between what we're reading and theorizing what AI could do and what we're actually seeing in the industry today, for sure.

Ryan: For sure.

Jack: How do you see, maybe last one on AI, but how do you see if at all that AI could actually change the relationship between architects or between consulting firms and clients?

Ryan: Well, over the years, the good technologies and the useful technologies we've adopted have mostly been embraced by our clients. They don't see all of them, but they do see some. Let's go back to Part3. Contract admin is probably one of the most client-facing parts of our business. Design development is obviously very heavy in retrieving owner requirements and getting their sign-off on what we're providing for them, but contract administration, very paperwork-heavy exercises, most of the time going into great detail on answering RFIs, issuing certificates of payment, that kind of thing.

Part3 has been a big success from our side for our client-facing relationships. They find the platform very easy to use. It makes their lives easier. They can go in, review something, click a button, and it's signed. They don't have to go into an email, print a document on their printer, sign it, scan it in, rename it, send it back to us, then we send it to the—like that whole issuance process that used to take days is now a five-minute thing. Especially for our clients that we've been working with for decades, they love it!

Jack: That’s awesome!

Ryan: That's the kind of impact we're trying to get with new software. Could AI potentially help with that? I don't think we would ever want to send something out of the office that was written or issued by AI without reviewing it. We'll always need to have some level of quality control on what's leaving this office. Again, I think it can help with certain things in the front end. It can help with some of the visualization, the early design, helping the client get through multiple design options perhaps, that kind of thing. Maybe some real-time World Café-type charettes, but I don't think it's going to ever replace someone in the chair between us and the client.

Jack: Sometimes it's the simple stuff, right? We can get lost in what AI is going to do and robots walking around on-site and all that stuff, but just making sure people can sign things and we can make manual workflows digital, that's kind of where the bar is.

So, within the context of all the things we've talked about—and we've covered a lot of ground—we've covered a lot of back office software, we've covered a lot of innovations you've done just in terms of the business model, and we've covered AI, VR. So, in the context of everything there, can you tell us a little bit about the vision or the future of your firm in the context of any of those technological changes?

Ryan: Sure. Honestly, slow and steady wins the race for us. We've been around since 1907. Nobody knows the characters that were involved with from back in those days. When we look at the projects that we've done, I come back to the fact that human interaction, customer service, quality in design, and a relationship with the client are the number one things. That's the key to success. Preserving all of those things and then just adding to our service with the support of AI if it comes out, and carefully selected platforms and software, will continue to win forever, I think.

Jack: I think you're absolutely right. If I was going to broaden that question for you and say any final thoughts or predictions on the future of architecture?

Ryan: That’s such a hard question.

Jack: That’s why I asked it! Ha ha.

Ryan: Ha ha! That's why you kind of travel around the world and see what other countries do and the value that they place on design. We're always slightly concerned that architecture is becoming a commodity, especially in today's world. In the last five years, with interest rates climbing the way they are, really most of our clients, the only thing that matters right now is the viability of the project. Can we get it built? We've seen lots of changes in the last term of this government with regards to environment and carbon neutrality and the way that we're designing, and those are all good things. I think that design will continue to be expanded upon and important in the community.

Jack: Yeah, I totally agree with that. It's going to be interesting to see more about what the economy holds for us. These constraints are tightening and tightening everything around architecture, and it's not just architecture, right? It's the entire design phase, and it's almost every discipline involved in the design and consulting realm.

Ryan, it's been awesome talking to you. I really enjoyed getting your future predictions and getting some insight from you and learning a bit more. Hopefully, other architects and engineers are going to learn from this as well and see how things can be done. I think you're a fantastic example of someone who's been an early adopter, tried new ways of doing things better, and seen a lot of success from it. Thanks so much for sharing your story.

Ryan: I appreciate that, Jack. Look forward to the next chat.