Part3's CEO, Jack Sadler, sat down with one of our valued clients, Curtis Norton, ​​Chief Technical Officer at Strang to talk architecture and AI. In this insightful interview, they explore the challenges and opportunities of the architecture industry, comparing the transformative technology of the past with today's cutting-edge advancements.

Looking ahead, Curt shares his predictions about the future of architecture and the role emerging technologies will play. Curtis also shares Strang’s experience working with Part3, highlighting how our solutions have helped them save time and boost efficiency. 

We hope you enjoy this blend of industry insights and personal experiences that shed light on the evolving landscape of architecture.

Questions & Annotations

• 00:04 - Introductions

• 00:30 - Tell us about your background & current role in architecture

• 02:22 - How long have you been in architecture?

• 02:34 - What big changes or impacts have you noticed in technology?

• 04:29 - How do you see the field of architecture evolving?

• 05:55 - Have you seen signs of AI & AR in projects today?

• 06:33 - What challenges are holding back tech innovations in architecture?

• 08:10 - What other tech innovations have you seen on your sites?

• 10:21 - How has the integration of AI impacted your work in architecture?

• 11:52 - How should education adapt to AI tools in architecture?

• 13.32 - Have you seen AI play a crucial role in projects or daily work?

• 15:02 - What challenges do you foresee with AI integration in architecture?

• 16:41 - What is needed for industry comfort and adoption of AI?

• 17:51 - Where do you see AI changing the relationship between architects and clients?

• 19:21 - How do you see the future of your firm with these advances in tech?

• 20:20 - What construction admin software does your firm use and why?

• 21:02 - Have these CA tools led to improvements or made a significant impact?

• 21:57 - Have you been able to adapt your fees because of this saved time?

• 22:52 - Any final thoughts or predictions about the future of architecture?

  
  

👉 If you'd like to learn how Part3 can help your firm save time and increase efficiency like it did for Curt at Strang, book a demo today!

Transcript

Jack: "So, I'm Jack Sadler, and I'm the co-founder and CEO of Part3. Part3 is a platform that's helping architects and engineers across North America take back control of their construction and contract administration phase. Today, I’ve got a friend and someone we've been working with for a couple of years now, Curt Norton. Curt is one of the senior partners and the chief technical officer at Strang. It's good to have you, Curt."

Curt: "Thanks for having me, Jack. Good to see you."

Jack: "Thank you. I thought it'd be great if you could tell us a little bit more about your background. I think your title is super interesting and a rare one. You've got a background I've heard the story of a couple of times, but it always fascinates me. So why don't you give us a little bit of an overview of where you've come from?"

Curt: "Yeah, sure. It is a unique path, and the short version of it is that when I was a kid, I wanted to be a doctor. But midway through college, I shifted gears and found a job in construction. That led me to a construction degree. When I graduated, I was a carpenter and couldn't find a job. I did some other work for a year in construction and then eventually became a project manager. A few years later, I decided to change jobs and ended up working for an architect as a construction administrator. That eventually led to me becoming a spec writer at that firm. Later in my career, I decided I wanted to try construction again. Fast forward several years through a recession and a bunch of other weird changes, and I landed back in architecture. It's really a place where I love being. Writing specs is something I find interesting, and I like working with contractors during construction. So for me, it's been this great fit working in design because a lot of architects don't care for writing specs, and they don't like dealing with construction. I do, so it's worked out well for us."

Jack: "You're a pretty rare breed. Folks who get really into specs and CA are not many. I love that area as well, though."

Curt: "Yeah, it really is. It's something new every day. I get to keep learning things, and that helps drive me. Now I get to be one of the leaders of this firm and take it into the future."

Jack: "How long have you been in architecture now, Curt?"

Curt: "Boy, I guess about 17 or 18 years."

Jack: "So, if you look backwards a little bit in that time, what do you think have been some of the bigger changes or some of the bigger impacts from a technology perspective that you've seen on your teams and your projects?"

Curt: "Well, when I started, submittals came in the mail. There were six, eight, or ten copies of structural drawings. Once you finished marking one up, you had to mark up all the rest. We literally tracked those submittals on a paper log. Eventually, we moved that to Excel, which was marginally better. So it's been incredible changes. Email and just being able to have electronic submittals and RFIs sped things up and made it easier. Of course, in the meantime, construction projects tended to want to move faster because of budgets, so there was more pressure to get things done. Just having technology and having the technology work better today has really helped improve what we do and made it easier to do it a little faster."

Jack: "Curt and I once did a joint talk in Wisconsin, in Green Bay. The opener was basically you covering that background and that historical context. You walked on and brought big giant rolls of drawings, and you had a Kodak camera. So that was your kit, your go-to site kit from back when you started, right?"

Curt: "Yeah, that and the clipboard."

Jack: "So now that you look forward a little bit, I'm in technology. You and I bonded because we speak technology a lot and we like looking forward and speculating. I always say that predictions are a fool's game because by the time we get two years into the future, who knows what the rest is going to look like. But we're going to do them anyway. So as you start to look ahead and think over the next few years, maybe even ten years, ten years is very hard to speculate, but as you look further into the future, what do you think is going to happen? What do you see evolving in the field of architecture?"

Curt: "From the construction side, where I tend to spend most of my time, the tools that have been coming out lately are greatly improved. Like we talked about with the presentation, pretty much I walk onto a site with a tablet and a hard hat. That's all I have to carry with me other than maybe a tape measure. That just makes it easier to get through a site and find your information when you're looking at it. From the design side, I see all kinds of opportunities with changes in technology and the potential for AI. Things like generative design can help get rid of some of those mundane tasks and the repetitive stuff, allowing us to spend more time thinking about higher-level options. I think there's really some great things coming. Obviously, like you said, ten years down the road, I'm sure augmented reality is going to make things way easier for contractors and for us as we're trying to understand work put in place and seeing if it's right. You could have a set of goggles that show you the design relative to what's going on in the field. I think those are great potentials for the future."

Jack: "Have you seen signs of any of this making its way into projects or into your life now?"

Curt: "Just little tidbits. I listen to a bunch of different podcasts about some of these things. I know that a lot of the headsets right now are pretty big and bulky, and people are concerned about safety on site. There's a lot of improvements that need to happen, but to me, I just can't imagine them not advancing because of the opportunities it creates and the improvements we would get out of it. I think they are so great that people will adopt it."

Jack: "Do you think there are any other reasons or anything else that's holding back things like AR and VR? That's one of those we've been hearing about for quite some time, and I've seen a ton of really great use cases. But you're right, I think actually seeing them out on site has been super rare still. I think particularly for AR, I've seen good use cases in helping show clients, creating visions, and helping visualize a space, which is really difficult for anyone who's not an architect to do. I've seen some good use cases, but I haven't seen it make its way onto the site, which is more about what you were talking about."

Curt: "Some of the simple things like just being out on an open site with the sun beating down on you make it hard to use lasers and things like that to project. Getting the lighting right presents challenges. With the headsets, you've still got to be able to see where you are on the site and be safe walking around. But I suspect we'll find ways to deal with that. Truthfully, after a relatively short period of time, you have a building structure that provides shade, creating better conditions to work under. Having the data get to the site or 5G technology as it improves, or maybe as we see the next generation of cellular data, will all speed up some of the information we need because processing speed gets in the way too when you're dealing with those things."

Jack: "You're right. So, this is talking about AR predominantly. Have you seen anything else? We talked a bit about AI, which we're definitely going to come back to. Have you seen any other kind of technology, any hardware, or anything like robotics and drones in different areas where there's a lot of innovation? I don't think we've hit mass adoption yet, but we're starting to see them pop up. Have you seen anything change on your sites?"

08:22 - Curt: "Certainly, the use of laser scanning and drones to get existing buildings to do work on them is a game changer to me. You get accurate information, and you're not dealing with all the notes about plus or minus for dimensions and trying to measure with a tape out in the field. Those things make huge improvements for people. If you've got large, tall buildings, drones are a phenomenal tool to do inspections. You're probably going to see more than you'd ever see even trying to hang off the side of the building looking at it, at least in the general case, not tapping on stone. So, I think there are, and not only that, but now there's competition for all these layout tools. I'm seeing robotic printers and hearing about laser scanning that can show three-dimensional layouts on walls or floors. I just think that demand will keep pushing people to push all those options."

Jack: "It's coming, right? I always use the analogy of Google Maps. When Google Maps first came out, none of us really used it. It was kind of clunky and wasn't super accurate, but nowadays, would you use anything else? Google Maps fuels how people search and find things near them. I think a lot of this tech is going through that buffer phase, needing a bit more battle testing and a few more real-life use cases like weather and on-site safety. But it's inevitable once it hits a certain level of adoption."

Curt: "Yeah, I totally agree.”

Jack: “So, let's shift to AI. I know that's a topic that you and I talk about a lot and definitely a topic that I think is relevant in architecture. If we focus on today and where we are now, have you seen the integration of AI impact your work as an architect so far?"

Curt: "We've really just been kind of dipping our toes into it. One of the biggest use cases we did is something every summer we call Steam Camp. It's like STEM: science, technology, engineering, math, and arts. So, STEAM is something we've been doing for several years. We bring kids in and just expose them to all of the different professions, including architecture. So, we had some kids in last summer for STEAM camp, and we gave them a bunch of materials to try to create their own designs with. Then, we used AI to take images of their design and let the AI show what the design of that park or building or whatever it could look like. It really did inspire kids and the designers that were working with them to see the power of what AI can do. I can see where that would start to build for us as we're presenting options for clients, especially in the massing side of things in the early stages."

Jack: "Yeah, you hit on two really interesting points there. One is around the use of the tool and the use of what you can do on a site and with your clients. The other is also the educational component to this. The younger generation coming up into architecture is going through all the same programs that current architects did as well, but AI tools are becoming something that's more prevalent. They have to learn them and adapt to them. How do you think education needs to or should adapt to allow for these new AI tools or potential new AI tools and processes?"

Curt: "Yeah, that's an interesting one because I feel like the architecture schools at the moment, and of course I'm not an architect so I don't mean to be negative about something, but they resist. A lot of the schools have resisted teaching the tools like Revit, and so I think there's going to have to be a bit of a shift. Maybe they'll just see it as a pressure from the people coming into the program wanting to learn the tools. Because now it's not just Revit, but like you said, these AI tools. Honestly, they're probably going to be exposed to a bunch of these things on their own, just like today's kids. You know, they're digitally savvy, they're on cell phones in middle school, so they're coming in expecting that kind of thing. I hope that creates some upward pressure on the schools to bring software and those tools into the design program of education."

Jack: "Yeah, and I think it'll be interesting to see how the current generation reacts to it as well. It's going to be an interesting trader for the generational divide. The divide could be bigger. We need the existing skill set that lives out there in the field today to be passed down to the new generation while learning the new tools—not to lose track of how things get done and why things get done. You know, not just plugging things into a tool and seeing the result, but trying to make sure we kind of maintain why are we doing this, how are we doing it, and all of the stuff that we're doing today, right?"

Curt: "Yep."

Jack: "So, do you have any projects where you've seen AI play some kind of crucial role in design or execution? You mentioned the STEAM camp—it was more on the execution side as well at the beginning. You also sort of touched on generative design. Have you seen that sort of flow into your day-to-day yet?"

Curt: "So, I would not say we've seen it in our day-to-day, and partly because it's outside of the area that I take care of in our business. I could even be missing out on something that our team is doing. I know that we've had some young professionals that have entered design competitions, and I think they've integrated some of those tools into their efforts. I don't know that we've had specific, excuse me, specific projects where we've integrated them yet."

Jack: "Yeah, so seeing them in competitions is probably a good first step. I heard the term recently, 'collaborative intelligence,' when someone was saying that artificial intelligence is great because it's doing the thing and it's giving you ideas, but you still kind of need the architect to give it the last grant. To probably be comfortable with the level of trust they have with it. So, this term 'collaborative intelligence' became the way of positioning it—you're still doing all the work, but you're using AI to maybe speed parts up, add some new ideas, add some new creative options for you."

Curt: "Yes, oh definitely."

Jack: "When you look further ahead and you do start to think about those predictions you gave us, what are some of the challenges that you foresee with integrating AI deeper into architecture?"

Curt: "So, you know, a couple of things. Certainly, copyright becomes a bit of a concern. What is AI pulling from when it's doing your design iterations? There are some legal issues I think that'll have to get sorted out that are tied to some of that. I've heard rumblings about whether the use of AI during a design actually then meets the definition of design and something you can put your copyright on. So, I think those are some things we'll have to sort out and figure out what the ownership becomes and to what extent using those tools impacts that."

Jack: "Do you think it would be worth it? What do you think the benefits would be?"

Curt: "Well, I definitely think it's worth it because, especially if you're using AI based on your own past designs and you can show that it's not really stealing someone else's design from them, that it'll help us come up with more options, right? And then as we look at those options, we can decide which ones are the best. But you didn't spend two weeks coming up with different renderings of different options; it just happened in moments on your computer. So, the value is definitely there. The speed, the efficiency we're going to get is there, but the challenges are real."

Jack: "And you spoke mostly around regulation and governance as well of the data. So, what do you think we'll need to see to feel more comfortable? Is there anything that could kind of bring more comfort, or is it just reaching a certain level of critical adoption? Or is there government regulation or anything like that that could start to come out that would, you think, give confidence to the industry to adopt it more?"

Curt: "You know, I guess that's just a work in progress. I'm not sure what the right answer is. I think it'll be definitely a collaborative thing between the design industry and those who are regulating it. But we do actually have some good attorneys out there, so maybe they can help us figure out the right paths."

Jack: "Yeah, I don't think there's a right answer either, but that might have been it. I think if the legislators and regulators can actually work with designers, I think that would be huge. So, I hope we start to see that soon as well. One of the big areas I like kind of digging into is I think the first impact AI is going to have is going to have an impact on the relationship between architects and your clients. It's going to start to change a few different things. It's going to change the speed you can work at and your ability to deliver. It's going to change their expectations. So, where do you see AI changing that relationship, or would it change that relationship?"

Curt: "Well, I think it really has potential. I mean, with the tools that are already popping up, customers or clients might be trying to come up with some of their own ideas using some of these tools and then coming to an architect and saying, 'Okay, well this is the kind of thing I'm thinking of.' So, there are some real positives. If they come in and you already have a sense of what they think they want to see, then at least you can get through the beginning process a little faster understanding what they're looking for. Not that you can't offer other solutions, but we do a lot of visual preference studies when we go through with clients, as I'm sure most architects do, showing different images. And so, if they've done some of that work on their own, it could certainly speed some things up."

Jack: "Yeah, we're seeing tools now that can kind of take you all the way through to what you believe would be real renders and start to create basic, if not very accurate, plans from those renders and things. So, it's definitely going to have a pretty quick knock-on effect. But as you start to think about your firm and you lay the groundwork for where you want to be—and you're the perfect person to ask, you know, you're wearing a lot of hats, you're looking at firm-wide efficiency and the operations of the firm as well—so where do you think Strang would go? How do you see the future of your firm in the context of all the changes we've discussed, you know, from AI to AR and any other innovations and technological enhancements that you see coming?"

Curt: "Yeah, it kind of goes back to what I said in the beginning. I see us adopting those tools because I think any firm that doesn't start working with and adopting those tools will get left behind because they'll be spending time on the inefficient activities instead of the good high-level activities. So, we'll be moving forward, we'll be implementing those tools and just being able to present and create places where people prosper and continue that path forward for us and our lives."

Jack: "That's awesome. And you spend most of your time in the build phase, mostly on the construction administration and the CD phase through to execution and finishing off the project. So, can you share what construction administration software or tools have been utilized by your firm and why they were chosen?"

Curt: "Yeah, you bet. So, we are using Part3 for our construction administration process. It turned out to be a very efficient tool. It was just such a dramatic change from our old spreadsheet technology that we were using, and it's just a much more user-friendly and efficient system for us. We've also integrated Autodesk Build to publish our drawings and have those available to everybody in the firm, so now we know where to go to look for our drawings."

Jack: "Awesome. Have you seen the influence they've had? Collectively, have you seen an overall improvement in things like client satisfaction or project execution? Is there anything you can speak to that kind of makes you sleep better at night?”

Curt: " You know, as far as a company goes, not directly to our clients, but for us, is the time-saving. Um, we used to have, at one point, we had two full-time people who only managed the processing of all the documents during CA, MID, ARE, etc. And we have one person now who's actually part-time doing the specific or doing the construction administration work on top of it because they're not spending so much time logging things into spreadsheets and that. So, we've become much more efficient, which then allows us to give better fees as we go down the road for our client services.”

Jack: “Have you been able to adapt and change your fees as a result of this? Because time-saving is often one of those double-edged swords, right? Like, it's great saving some time, but if that's just cutting out the billable hours you could have claimed, it's a double-edged sword for how you handle that. But you're speaking about it in the context of bringing people out to take on more projects and trying to repurpose that time, right?”

Curt: “Sure, that is definitely part of it. Historically, construction projects tend to be a bit of a drain on our budgets, especially since we often will give a fixed fee for doing that whole project. So, when contractors cause trouble, it just bleeds our fee. And so, if we're more efficient, then at least maybe we're getting closer to our budget number.”

Jack: “Then win-win. Contractors don’t cause trouble do they?”

Curt: “No.”

Jack: “Any final thoughts? Any final thoughts or predictions about the future of architecture?”

Curt: “I don't know. I'm just excited because the things that we're seeing look like they will provide us some great tools to be even better in the future. And you know, we don't even know what we don't know yet, right? There could be something brand new in five years that's even a bigger change than what we're talking about now. So, yeah, I don't know. That's about it, but I'm pretty excited about the future.”

Jack: “It almost certainly is, right? There's someone in a basement or in a garage somewhere putting together a whole new set of tools that we haven't seen, and in a few years, they'll find a business case to apply it to, and it'll roll out, and it'll be something that we wonder how we ever lived without.”

Curt: “Exactly!”

Jack: “ Thanks so much for joining, Curt. It's been awesome speaking to you.”

Curt: “Yep, thanks a lot. I appreciate it, and it's been a great time.”

Jack: “Cheers, Curt!”